Unbelievable that a resort of this magnitude cannot provide access to a pool for all who visit !! Not only is there not access, but they flaunt their private club, creating even more animosity. I remember when the resort was in the planning stages and Suncadia was trying to create good will with the local community, a pool for all was advertised. As soon as they recieved all their permits, the locals were shun and now even owners within the resort are being closed out and taunted. Nice PR...

I agree. We’ve spent several weekends at our friends home in Suncadia over the past couple of years. While we love the proximity to the city and think Suncadia could someday rival Sun River -- WE CAN’T BELIEVE THERE ISN’T A POOL WE CAN USE WITHOUT OUR FRIENDS BEING PRESENT. I’m more than happy to pay to use a pool but to not have that option when it’s 100 degrees out is ridiculous. Even when we do go with our friends who are members, we can’t find a chair to sit at as the outdoor pool is overrun with lodge renters. Why aren’t there more pools??????

I hear your frustration. I got so far as to make an offer on a lot last spring. The plan was to build a home as an investment, renting it out to help subsidize the cost of ownership. The resort has no plans to build another pool and unless you rent your home through Suncadia’s management company your guests won’t have access to the only pool in the resort. Even if you just want to let your friends use your home from time to time they don’t have access to the pool unless you check them in personally and stay with them while they are there (with the catch that you can only check in 6 guests per day???). I never get into situations where people tell me what I have to do. Needless to say, I didn’t buy the lot.

Thanks Suncadia, you saved me a fortune!

Do NOT buy real estate at Suncadia if you need/want rental income. Lowes/Destination is trying to create a monopoly so they can charge >50% of rental income. They are doing this by restricting access to the current swim fitness center and delaying the public HOA pool indefinitely.

In addition, do NOT buy real estate to let friends/business associates use your house. Again, they restrict access to Swim Fitness and Golf such that friends come away bitter instead of appreciative.

time to take legal action against them and the realtors that represented them. give us our money back. it is a matter of time before they go under, prices will plummet even further.
if you want to market your property through them they will neglect to properly promote it.

Are we not being duped again by this blog. We have a rental company pushing for an HOA (Home Owners Association) pool so they can put their resort guests in it at no charge to the rental company. So if the HOA puts a pool in, it will be again overrun with resort guests. If we are pushing for a Home Owners Pool, lets make it exactly that. My Bellevue neighborhood has an HOA pool, that requires renters or guests to pay a daily usage fee as well as be accompanied by the Homeowner...just like they do it here. I want my HOA dollars to go to something that the resort promised us, when it makes sense, a pool that Homeowners can enjoy!

Currently the rental company has the loudest voice about the pool situation, yes their guests can use the Swim and Fitness facility, but the homeowner must accompany their guests and pay a fee (like any other member). The home owner just doesn't like the fact that he must sit there while his guests are using the pool. So he is adding to the overcrowding issue that everyone is complaining about. As this homeowner posts on this blog he is getting the rest of the homeowners upset over issue he is partly responsible for.

This blog will only have credibility if all facts are researched and presented in a responsible manner. It makes sense to step back and take a minute to think of solutions for us, the homeowners, not another business trying to take advantage of the people that have already invested in this community.

I have been looking at lots at the Nelson Preserve and have been curious as to just what the HOA fee is supposed to cover. Are the current HOA dues supposed to cover membership to this pool (when and if it is completed)....or will they most likely increase the HOA dues because they have a pool (when and if it is completed).

In response to lot owners Aug25 post above

I am sorry if you are feeling duped by this forum. For full disclosure: I am a home owner and do not work for a rental company although I rent my home through a non-Destination rental company. I would like to clarify a few of thoughts/facts.

First, per the swim fitness centers’ policy, the rental company I use can only bring 6 guests per day into the center for $30-60/day in summer. Most Suncadia (non-Lodge) homes hold more than 6 people. As such, the rental company has stopped providing Swim Center access for my guests. This puts me at a huge disadvantage renting my property versus Destination. Destination offers ‘unlimited’ number of guests access to the swim center for $20/day. The only 2 non-Destination rental companies I know of have only 11 TOTAL homes under management.

Second, the overcrowding during peak weekends is due to Destination guests and lack of a second pool facility – not third party rental company guests.

Third, the value of your lot, my home, and everyone else’s property is driven by two things: #1) peoples affinity for Suncadia and the lifestyle it provides (personal use) and #2) the *potential*cash flow of the property/home. The importance of #1 versus #2 can be debated but make no mistake that #2 is important if you want the value of your investment to go up. Destinations’ policies directly and *negatively* impact #1 and #2. Pool access is important to both #1 and #2. Regarding #1, many owners (including me) want to let friends use their home for a weekend and have access to a pool. Why can’t my best friend’s family use my ridiculously expensive house and have access to a pool? Regarding #2, Destination is leveraging the pool as a competitive advantage and to eliminate competition. Many renters have inquired and are interested except for the fact that they need/want access to the pool (which I would want if I was renting.) Before the Swim center clamped down on the 6 guest policy in the spring, people complained that my access fees were more than Destinations and I lost renters due to that. Further, Destination is leveraging this advantage in hopes of putting the competition out of business. When that happens, the potential (in my case actual) cash flow will drop dramatically since Destination will increase their % of the rental revenue. (You can see previous posts on this topic – it will happen they will take > 50% of the rental revenue)

Fourth, I hope and expect that the HOA pool will charge appropriate and fair guest fees but also have a policy that allow for some unattended friends/colleagues and renters into the facility. I would guess that there one big difference between your Bellevue neighborhood and Suncadia - many Suncadia owners do not live at Suncadia and therefore it is not as practical to accompany guests to the pool. The fees will help pay for the maintenance and upkeep of the facility. Hopefully, the decision to allow a) unattended guests and b) renters would be discussed/decided by owners. There will probably be a big difference of opinions between people who live in Suncadia versus those who use it as a second home. Also, there is the non-trivial issue of distinguishing between friends/colleagues and renters.

Lastly, Destination has absolutely no incentive to get the HOA pool built. It completely undermines their competitive advantage in the rental market and ability to grow rental revenue. I think we need to put an agreement in place that aligns their interests with homeowners. I have been thinking about some possible solutions and hope to articulate and post them soon.

I am a current owner in Suncadia but my family has owned in Eagle Crest for some time. It was the community at Eagle Crest, that JELD-WEN had developed that prompted us to purchase in Suncadia. Unfortunately the reality is a far cry from what we were sold and while I am pleased to see this forum where our voice can be heard, I am baffled by the response of “lot owner” on August 25th.

In any resort where amenities like villages, restaurants and ice cream shops are to survive, home rental is essential and “renters” are needed. The average occupancy by a second home owner is less than one month per year (I’ve seen studies that have it at 14 days) and so without renters, none of the amenities that I believe the majority of owners in Suncadia (the non-private side) were expecting when they bought here will ever survive.

As far as pool access goes, it’s ridiculous to think that renters will come to a resort in the summer without access to a pool. It’s simply what kids and families do. To not have an open and equal policy is ridiculous. The owners do need their own pools and they should be open to anyone staying within the resort.

The problem with the existing policy is that it excludes people who are not paying money to Destination Resorts and the people who are staying in a Destination property have access for free. Yes, they are automatically billed a daily access fee on their nightly rate but that doesn’t come into play when they are deciding whether or not to go to the pool for the day nor does it make up for the wear and tear on the facility.

We have access to three different complexes at Eagle Crest. I’ve posted JELD-WEN’s pool policy below. Just adopt this policy and be done with it.

Effective February 1, 2009, the guest policy for access to sports center is being revised to better manage the facilities and their availability for the benefit of the owners. This change is being made in tandem by the Board of Directors of Eagle Crest Master Association for the Resort Sports Center and Eagle Crest Resort Corp for the two sports centers at The Ridge.

Owners and their immediate family members currently enjoy all benefits of their Association member and no additional fees will be charged for access to the sports centers. Your access is covered by your association dues. This is not changing. The definition of owner and family has not changed either. Only two adults named on the owner cards are “owners” for purposes of facility access. A “family” is defined as no more than two adults (married or unmarried) and their respective dependent children, if any. Dependent children are defined as under age 21, unmarried, and living at home or temporarily living outside the home while attending school. Again, these definitions have not changed.

WHAT’S NEW? All other persons with authorized access to the sports centers will be charged a guest fee of $5.00 per day per person (with a weekly option available for $20.00 per person). Children age 3 and under are free. The guest fee will provide for access to all three sports centers at Eagle Crest (Resort Sports Center, Ridge Sports Center, and Lakeside Sports Center).

WHY THE CHANGE? The previous policy allowed for an owner to bring many guests, on a daily basis, for free. Not only does this practice reduce the availability of facilities for owners and their immediate family members, it adds to the otherwise normal wear and tear on the facilities. As operational costs increase, it is fiscally responsible to seek ways to offset costs where possible by increasing revenues thereby reducing the net expenses that are passed on to owners in the form of dues. Adopting this new policy is an important step toward managing costs and minimizing dues increases.

WHAT ELSE HAS CHANGED? Under the previous policy, when guest fees where charge, there were two different amounts – one for “extended family members” (the adult children, grandparents and grandchildren for $3 each) and another fee for everyone else ($7 per person). There was also no guest fee charged for up to 6 people “in residence” in a unit or home. This two-level fee structure in addition to the many “free” guests that could previously be admitted made enforcement of guests rules and collecting fees of any kind nearly impossible.

CHANGE! It is fair to say this became an overused word during the recent political campaigns. It is, however, a fact of life that must be embraced if we are to manage the challenges that present themselves today. Usage and management challenges in 2009 are not the same as they were 5, 10, and yes, 20 years ago.

IMPORTANT! If you rent your home or invite guests to use your home unaccompanied by you, you need to arrange for pre-purchase of guest passes. Guest passes will no longer be issued by the Sports Center directly to your rental occupants or house guests that are unaccompanied by you. Guest passes will be available for online purchase beginning January 15, 2009 through the owner website, www.eaglecrestowners.com. Owner number and ownership verification will be required in that process.

Guests accompanied byte owner may purchase guest passes at any of the three sports center. As always, owners must carry their Owner Identification Card with them for access and one picture identification as well. The complete policy may be viewed on the owner website at www.eaglecrestowners.com. A printed copy is available on request.

NOTE: The “Multiple Owner Policy” no will permit additional deeded owners of record to purchase an annual pass for access to the sports centers. See the complete policy on the website for more information.

QUESTIONS: Please first go to www.eaglecrestowners.com to review the complete policy and Frequently Asked Questions. If your question has not been addressed, telephone contact information will be available.

THANK YOU! The management and staff at the Sports Centers will appreciate your understanding of and compliance with the new policy. Your respectful interaction with staff members will be appreciated.

We have stayed yearly at various rental homes for the past 12 years. We have never had to pay an access fee at the swimming pool and health club. And there was not a limit of people that can go per household. At Sunriver, you are given 20 passes. At Wapato Point, no passes are needed. We like the proximity from Seattle to Suncadia but dislike the idea of having to pay for the activities. Why can's Suncadia be more like other vacation resorts?

Can anyone answer the question above: If a separate pool is built, how much will it increase our HOA dues?

To answer your question Marj, the answer is it may or may not cost anything additional. It is all in the budgeting process. Because Suncadia gets $130/month/lot (?), you would think there is sufficient funds for a pool, but if you start adding lifeguards, etc., maybe there isn't enough in the current budget.

On the Jeld-Wen pool policy. . . as I wrote some weeks ago, my family sat around the dinner table and had a meeting to discuss the pool issue and develop a solution. With a white board filling our dining room, we spent about 1.5 hours discussing all of the different parties (lot owners, home owners, resort guests, employees, golf club members, pool and fitness members, Cle Elum residents, Tumble Creek owners, etc.), discussed whether these parties should be grouped together or not, compared the existing policy to Black Butte and other resorts we have stayed at, and came up with our proposed solution. In the end, it pretty much looks like the Jeld-Wen pool policy at Eagle Crest (“EC”).

Currently, Jeld-Wen/Lowe has put a “fair market value” on access to the only pool available, and all other resort amenities, for $20 per room. My understanding is a room holds a maximum of six people, so it is really $20/family/room, not to exceed six people.

Based on Jeld-Wen fan’s email, the EC policy was a tiered rate based on your classification: the owner’s immediate family, extended family members, everyone else, and renters up to six people. So, there were four tiers paying $0, $3, $7, and $0 respectfully. It is understandable that enforcing the multi-tiered policy could be difficult, and some people could take advantage of the situation. Honestly, how would the staff know if you were a renter and free, or a friend and supposed to charge you $7.

To simplify the policy, Jeld-Wen has made it $5/per person/day for everyone except the owner’s immediate family, children under 3 are free, or alternatively $20/per person/week. All passes must be purchased in advance.

In conclusion, the current EC policy makes perfect, logical sense, and there is no reason that such a policy cannot be implemented at Suncadia. My family would be very satisfied with such a policy at Suncadia, and we encourage everyone to support implementation of the EC policy at Suncadia.

This has nothing to do with whether or not “the other rental company” is behind this blog or not. In their defense, the reason they are pushing this issue is because the current policy doesn’t make sense. It may be self-serving for them to have us want to push for change, but for any property owner faced with bringing guests to the resort, summer or winter, the current policy is unfair and unacceptable.

So, does anyone have a better solution? If so, please bring forward your suggestions. If not, can we all get behind the idea of pushing Jeld-Wen to implement the EC policy at Suncadia?

I love the Eagle Crest pool policy! Makes perfect sense. Can we unite to present this to the powers that be? Given that it was implemented at another Jeld Wen development, I would guess that would go a long way.

I agree - the Eagle Crest policy sounds very reasonable. Is the HOA board willing to present this to the developers?

I like what Concerned wrote. To be brief, the reason that we bought a lot was in hopes of capturing an opportunity to own at a resort like Sunriver and Black Butte in Oregon. These resorts, Black Butte specifically, are fun and RELAXing for the family because there are no daily access fees and rules for pool entry.

It is without debate that vacationers (whether owners, renters or guests) expect a pool.

Those who rent directly from a homeowner should have to pay a daily per-person fee when they register at the entrance gate. Those who rent from Suncadia will also pay this same fee. Another pool should be built with the exsiting HOA fees. And, everyone, Lodge, Inn, renter, owners or guests should be able to use these pools whenever they are open and available.

Owned at Black butte for 13 years absolutely loved it
hated driving 6 hours from Redmond (WA)
have been our suncadia home 4 years , don't rent it out and only up here part time
the four great neighborhood pools at BBR were wonderful, no pool access at suncadia because a $6,000 membership fee for me a single person, that would not even allow my extended family access at any daily fee, high or low , when the memberships were first sold is just asinine
bring on the EC policy at the least or better yet build the #@@#% ^&*#@ homer owner pool as promised

I don't think there will be a HOA pool for a long time to come, maybe even years.

you are probably correct about the HOA pool not being built for a long time. But, there is a pool already up there, they just need to address and fix access issues and make it more open, then many problems and issues would be solved!

Destination is leveraging the pool as a competitive advantage and to eliminate competition. Many renters ... need/want access to the pool

What would be nice to see is somebody with the resources to build a pool just outside of Suncadia to complete with the Swim & Fitness center. After all for many lots, especially those around Rope Rider and the Nelson Preserve, Roslyn is a fair piece closer than the S&FC. This action could dilute the lone competitive advantage of the S&FC, making it possible to rent through an agency other than Suncadia’s management company. Think about it: Prospector and Rope Rider are public, the restaurants and spa cater to all comers, most other outdoor amenities are not restricted access, air is free to breathe. The S&FC is about the only thing giving Destination a leg up.

Who knows, with the restructuring/etc. maybe a new management company would welcome a private effort which gets them off the hook of building a pool whose main benefit accrues to those who've already 'taken the plunge' (pun intended).

I think maybe if we just stop paying our HOA dues they will get the message!!! I know it covers the security guards etc., but we were told a completely different story when we purchased 4 years ago. As one stated above, they decided not to purchase in Suncadia. So if we wanted to sell now, it would not be possible. I was really happy when we purchased in Suncadia and I thought it was going to be this great place for our family to go. Do not get me wrong. Suncadia is beautiful, but if you can not enjoy your real estate and the amenities of the resort, what is the point. When does the class action lawsuit begin?

Any updates on the swim & fitness center yet?

Nothing has changed. Same policy. No chairs

Any new word on a HOA pool? Any policy changes this year on the S&F club? Does anyone still read this blog?

I'm pretty sure the same rules apply at the Swim and Fitness Center as in years past.... we haven't seen any information to think otherwise.

WOW. I was looking into real estate within Suncadia this week..........and then I found this blog. Thank You to all who saved me alot of time.
As long as Suncadia mgt allows the Lodge and or Destination Resorts to manipulate their ammenities/services away from you the homeowner and toward their renters (potential buyers) then why would I want to be a property owner.
Suncadia is a beautiful place and we would like to build something there but not if the property owners are treated like step children. It sounds like you guys were sold lots by the same guys who sell condo's in Mexico, or cars at the corner auto store!

We do own in Leavenworth and appreciate open honest dialogue when we are dealt with. If we hear that is returning to Suncadia, so will we. Good Luck to you all!

Mike, does Tumble Creek excite you? We own a great lot at TC.

As a home owner in Suncadia, with the current management in place and their present policies concerning the Swim and Fitness Center, I consider my purchase there the biggest financial mistake of my life!

The policies that exist for the Swim and Fitness Center presently, exist for only one reason.. to keep the monopoly in place that currently exists in the Suncadia resort for the renters market

The way the management gouges the owners in the rental process is incredible. The owners take all the risk and make pay all the costs. Worst situation that can exist from an owner's perspective that could exist!
A very unhappy owner

We have owned our lot for over 8 years. We plan to semi-retire at Suncadia and did not buy it for rental income. We are not waiting into perpetuity for an HOA pool. In 1-2 years when we build our home, we will build our own little pool, unless there is some rule against that as well hiding in our CC&Rs!

Update: The owner of the Swiftwater Winery is tired of waiting as well :) He is building a pool. Possibly starting spring 2012. Check out his design plan in the lobby of the winery. Don't know the details, but he is very confident it will be a much more reasonable cost than the current pool membership.

Update on pool at winery. Still planned but soonest 2013.

Has anyone heard what happened regarding the "results" of the homeowner survey regarding adding another pool?